Chimney Balloon fireplace damper

How much does it cost to run a gas log fireplace?

Q: I know vented gas log firepalces are inefficient to run, but how much does an hour of use cost if you are burning propane in an average vented gas log? - DR

A: Hi Dr, Well the cost will depend upon your cost of propane and the BTU of your device but lets make an estimate:

Say you have a 45,000 BTU unit and Propane costs $3 per gallon. The cost would be about $1.50 per hour to operate it. (Since a 90,000 btu unit will consume 1 gallon in an hour)

Keep in mind as well that you are getting very little if any heat gain from this fuel consumption. That is the travesty of vented gas logs. - Jason

 

How can a home inspector or energy auditor use a Chimney Balloon to solve fireplace downdrafts?

Q: Jason, I have a wood buring fireplace with a cozy great heater insert. I have a top of chimney and traditional damper installed. I have bad downdrafts and soot smell on rainy, windy days.

I am a Home Inspector and I am in the middle of a Certified Energy Training Program with RESNET. I just received a copy of Energy Magazine and read about your product. Looks like a good idea. I am going to try the vinegar tip. I need to measure my flue and I will order to try on my house. Once I get my blower door I will try the test like you did. I have doors, 2 dampers and the balloon. Thanks.- MW

PS. I will tell all my clients if I have success with your product. Nice website by the way and I am posting it on a few inspection association boards for others to try.

A: Hi MW, That was a great article you were referring to in Home Energy magazine (Mar/Apr 09) the energy rater that did the testing of the Chimney Balloon (Mark Furst) for that article did a great summarizing his testing of the Chimney Balloon. Mark was chosen to do the review/test because he had no experience with the Chimney Balloon, and could give an unbiased opinion. Mark also has a great reputation in Wisconsin for being very thorough at energy rating. We cannot re-post the article for copyright reasons, but you can click here to see a PDF of a summary of the Chimney Balloon article.

We would really welcome your comments and test results if you decide to do your own blower door testing of the Chimney Balloon with your fireplace.

We have not had the opportunity yet to compare the Chimney Balloon to the top seal dampers in blower door testing. I know the top seal dampers tend to seal tighter than traditional low-in-the-firebox metal dampers, but the trouble that is often experienced with a top seal damper is you are sealing the chimney and all of its creosote and soot content into the homes interior air envelope by bottling the chimney at the top. What further compounds the issue is the fact that the warm interior air that naturally ascends the chimney and is trapped there by the top damper tends to cool against the uninsulated brick walls of the chimney and the cold metal of the top damper and then that now-cool air drops again to the firebox. This convection process and air movement creates a draft and odor sensation at the hearth and into the room. That could be what you are experiencing.

The Chimney Balloon installed low and close to the firebox seals of the chimney from the homes interior air and eliminates this convection and air movement. - Jason

Is it easy to remove the Chimney Balloon. Can I remove it for fires and put back in ?

Hi Jason, Is it easy to remove the balloon. I have a gas fireplace with a warped damper. We use sometimes in winter. Would the ballon be easy to remove and put back in for fires? - KN

Dear KN, Your questions is very common for Chimney Balloon users, and I can answer it from my own experience with our living room fireplace as well. Uninstalling and installing the Chimney Balloon in smaller gas log fireplaces is really very easy so it doesn’t hinder your ability to use the fireplace seasonally at all. The first install usually has a bit of a learning curve to it, but once you do the install you will have a method down pat on how to do it again.

Personally, I have found using the Chimney Balloon has me clustering my fireplace uses in the winter. For instance...I will tell my kids and wife that when we put up the Christmas tree I will uninstall  the chimney balloon and we will enjoy using our fireplace for those festive weeks before the holidays come, and I will just use the old damper during those weeks. After New Years the tree comes down and the Chimney Balloon gets reinstalled in the fireplace, and then I know it is sealed up tight again. This allows everybody to get their fireplace fix for the year, and I am only doing one install and uninstall. Sure the living room is a little draftier during that time when the balloon is out, but it also helps me appreciate the difference when the Chimney Balloon is installed and saving me on the heating bills.

I hope this answers your question KN. Let me know if I can help further. - Jason

I have stuck fireplace dampers, they appear to be rusted shut and they are drafty.

Q: Jason, I have two fireplaces in my house and would never use them because fireplaces are a MAJOR SOURCE OF POLLUTION AND SHOULD BE BANNED!

Anyway, the top fireplace was used by previous owners and the damper is in pretty good condition. The bottom damper wasn't used much and ironically the damper is warped a bit and also rusted so that I can't open it. How can I use a chimney balloon in this application? - BT

A: Dear BT, Because of the acids and moisture in chimneys it is very common to find rust and corrosion on the damper like you found in your lower chimney. It is also very common to find a warped and rusty damper even after little use. That is part of the reason that dampers are made so loose fitting. The heating and cooling process causes this to occur in almost any damper situation.

It is possible to install a chimney balloon below the damper as long as the walls are parallel and the chimney balloon has a point of contact on all sides and the damper hardware does not interfere. Otherwise, above the damper is the best location. - Jason

Note: In this particular situation we found some WD40 and persistence can loosen a stuck damper. Once the damper was open we got a measurement of the smoke chamber above the damper and got a chimney balloon to fit that area.

Gas fireplace has a bad burning or smokey smell when it is on.

Q: Jason, Turned on gas fireplace and am noticing a bad burning almost smokey smell about 1-2 minutes after it is lit. We noticed it back in February when we lit it as well. Haven't had it cleaned in a while, but not sure if it maybe coming from something else? - JR

A: Dear JR, It could be a number of things, dirty burner, bad fuel to air mix, might even be a sticker burning off some of the hardware. I would have it checked out right away especially if it has a burning paper or petroleum kind of smell to it. If it has more of a burnt wood aroma, this fireplace must have been used as a wood burning fireplace before it was used as a gas log fireplace. Often over the summer the humidity will mix with the creosote and soot deposits left in the flue of a wood burning fireplace and make a very smelly burnt aroma. When you add flue heat to that mixture by turning on the gas log under it...well, that just stirs the smell up more. Sometimes a chimney cleaning will help the situation but sometimes it just stirs up more smells by brushing and agitating the creosote lining the chimney.

I would have a CSIA certified Chimney Sweep come and take a look at it and do a through cleaning and checkup on it. The smell may be worst at first after the cleaning, but it will tone back down over time. A sweep can get most of the deposits cleaned off and be sure to have him take a good look at your gas log set to make sure it is running well and not kicking combustion fumes into the home. - Jason

Wood fireplace with gas starter is very cold, how can we insulate it?

Q: Jason, We have been renovating an older home from the 70's for quite some time and have just recently moved in. The problem is the drafty original brick fireplace. No unpleasant odors, just drafty cold air. We've done quite a bit to update the look, but now the beautifully tiled hearth is always cold as well as the entire room. (Even though we live in the South, our winters can get cold.)

We have resorted to putting a huge piece of cardboard in front of the firebox because we do not have any glass doors. It does seem to help but is not an acceptable permanent fix.

The damper does open and close but does not provide a good seal. There is an ash fire grate in the center of the firebox floor, from which I feel a small draft. The fireplace also had a gas "starter" which uses a key to turn the gas off and on (No pilot light). There is a good amount of draft coming from the opening around the key. This area does not seem, to be connected to the chimney or flu area so I don't know if the chimney balloon would even help with this.

There appears to be some cracks in the fire bricks in the back of the fire box, which may also be contributing to the problem. Will the Chimney ballon help? Do you think ther are other things I could do to improve situation - glass doors, repair bricks... - DE

A: Dear DE, Since you just have a gas starter there you will be fine to use a Chimney Balloon as long as you make sure the gas is turned off completely wiht the key. Turning off the gas essentially is disabling the gas starter. Be certain though that the gas is completely shut off to the starter and you mark the key or gas tap with a note that the flue is plugged.

You have a few options of where to put the Chimney Balloon. If you have at least 8” of vertical lintel area below the damper handle you could put a balloon in below the damper. If the damper is too low for that or the handle is in the way, you could also put a Chimney Balloon in just above the damper. Essentially you would open up the damper and use a folding carpenters ruler folded into an L shape to get a measurement up there. You would measure wall to wall from left to right and from front to back and that would tell you what size Chimney Balloon to get. The Chimney Balloon would rest right on top of the open damper.

Next take a close look at the ash cleanout. You can remove the cover and measure the rough opening and install a Chimney Balloon into that ash chute. I am certain the majority of your draft is coming from air being exchanged between the ash chute and the chimney. This is a very common issue since and ash cleanout essentially is and air path that connects the basement or crawlspace to the chimney and results in a strong air pull through the fireplace that makes it cold.

After this, if your still have a draft coming from the keyhole, you can look into filling that with fireplace caulk if needed. - Jason

How can we fix the drafty grate on a vented gas fireplace?

Q: Jason, I have a vented gas fireplace that is very drafty - the cold air is drastically lowering the temperature of the surround hearth tile. The bulk of the draft is coming from the 3 inch tall grate at the bottom of the fireplace - the grate sits on the tile.

We have had contractors tell us that the fireplace was not insulated properly when it was installed 20 years ago - and that this is common. We have been advised that the only way to solve the problem is to tear out the fireplace - which is surrounded by nice tile, and either solve the insulation problem and reinstall or install a new fireplace. Expensive! Would a chimney balloon help? We are not interested in using the fireplace - it just sits there as a heat sucking ornament.- KN

A: Dear KN, Vented gas log fireplaces are notorious for being drafty and cold. Most of the time vented gas log fireplaces do not have a flue damper or the damper is clipped open or disabled. This allows a huge amount of cold air in, and allows significant home heat loss in the winter.

It is hard to tell without seeing your fireplace, but I have a feeling in your particular fireplace there is a through movement of air from the chimney flue to the grate that is steadily cooling your fireplace hearth. A good start on stopping this cross current is to put a Chimney Balloon in the flue and make sure the gas supply tap is turned off to this fireplace (since it is not used anyway).

The grate may be a little trickier, as your contractors have alluded to. By "grate" I would assume you mean a fresh air intake on the wall of the firebox? Or by grate do you mean there is an ash pit built into the floor of the firebox (see attached picture)? Or by grate do you mean a vent grate on the outside hearth face of the fireplace?

It may work better if we discuss this application over the phone. That way I can verify I am understanding the anatomy of the fireplace you are describing. You can contact me by calling 608-467-0229 and asking for Jason in Tech support. And it wouldn't hurt to have a few digital photos of the fireplace that you could email. I will be happy to work with you further to troubleshoot this application. - KN

*Note, this was resolved by installing a chimney balloon in the chimney to seal it. The "grate" was an old ash clean-out and that was sealed by installing a small 9x9 chimney balloon into the ash chute from the fireplace.

Are Chimney Balloons and Chimney Pillows the same thing?

Q: I have read about "Chimney Pillows" an inflatable fireplace draft stoppers in some government websites on energy. Is the chimney balloon what they are talking about? - TY

A: Hi TY, There are many different names for the Chimney Balloon. People call them Chimney bags, pillows, plugs, stoppers, seals, etc... So the reference you saw is probably talking about the Chimney Balloon. Here is a link to a page on the US Department of Energy website that talks of air sealing and the Chimney Balloon (see last bullet point): http://www1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/tips/air_leaks.html

The Chimney Balloon is often referred to as a "Chimney Pillow" so our company has trademarked that name as well. The unique feature of the Chimney Balloon is it is sized to fit your fireplace, it actually inserts into your chimney and inflates inside the chimney to seal it off with a tight wall to wall seal.

I have a chimney with no cap and the rain and snow comes in

Q: Jason, Can the Chimney Balloon still work if we don't have a chimney cap or damper on top? Will rain affect the balloon? We have a damper below. - MM

A: Hi MM, The Chimney Balloon will still work in a fireplace that does not have a cap or top damper on the chimney. The precipitation does not effect the balloon at all. As a matter of fact, an open chimney top is often the case with large older constructions buildings with fireplaces (especially pre 1900's).

However, there is something to be said about what a large amount of precipitation does to the inside of your chimney. Bricks are porous and absorb moisture, so when your chimney is getting wet on the inside and outside it can be a hard on the bricks and tuck pointing. Sealing off the flue with a chimney balloon will eliminate the air current that flows through the chimney that assists the chimney brick drying it out.

If this is a fireplace you use I would recommend you look into a metal screened cap for it. If this is a fireplace that you do not use at all and will not use in the foreseeable future, you may want to cover the chimney crown with some type of simple metal or wood weighted lid to keep the precipitation from having free access to the inside of the chimney. See the attached picture of a home made chimney cover made with plywood and a birch log screwed together. If you do cover the non-used chimney up-top on the chimney crown make sure to leave a large clear note down below in the fireplace that the chimney is plugged at the top. You don't want any unsuspecting person to start a fire in that fireplace with that cover on there. - Jason

My damper is 4 feet up the chimney and has a pull chain to open it and vents in the flue wall underneath.

Q: Jason, I have two issues. The website indicates that the chimney pillow should go above the damper. Our damper is about 4 feet up the chimney chute. It's attached to a chain and when open, the damper bisects the flue in an up and down position. Would we still position a pillow above the damper? How?

Also, We have a set of vents below the damper on all four sides. There are about 6 horizontal vents per side and they extend from right below the damper to about 8 inches below. Can I install over those? - SS

A: Dear SS, It sounds like you have a Heatelator brand fireplace. I have done many installs like this one you described. As a matter of fact there was a condo association in IL that had hundreds of these Heatelator fireplaces with butterfly dampers and vents underneath just as you described. See attached picture.

You will find a small ledge just above the firebrick lining the firebox. That ledge is a perfect spot to install a 36x15 Chimney Balloon. That area is trapezoid in shape but the 36x15 will have enough material to plug it anyway. See attached picture of balloon installed. - Jason